She Made $1.6M w/ 1on1 Coaching?! (Kim Argetsinger)

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1.6 million with one-on-one coaching.

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Business coach Kim Argettsinger made it happen and in this episode, she's about to show you how she did it, so you can, too.

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Welcome to the Jason Moss Show, where established online business owners go to increase their income, freedom and impact.

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I'm your host, jason Moss.

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Let's dive in, kim, so excited to have you here.

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Welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm so excited that I showed up twice today for this.

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Yeah, we were talking beforehand.

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You were so excited you showed up an hour early.

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So I'm excited we get to do this now, and I've definitely done that before as well.

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So I've been following you for years, actually like on the periphery.

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I remember seeing your name popping up in the coaching jungle Facebook group a few years back and it's a testament to the power of consistency and you've been showing up for so long and I remember seeing your name pop up and comments on other people's stuff and I remember checking around.

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You've just been in my world for years.

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I love your approach, I love your thoughts on scale, so I'm excited that we get to dive in today.

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One thing that's super interesting to me about your journey is I don't know many actresses that end up becoming business coaches, so tell me a little bit more about that backstory and what was the winding series of steps that led you from being an actor in New York to starting as a business coach and now running a very profitable, successful business coaching business.

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I think it's funny because on the surface it does not seem like that makes any sense, and it's definitely the Steve Jobs quote.

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If you can't connect the dots, looking forward, only looking backward.

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I think, as I explain some of this, you'll see how much in many ways it at least to me makes a lot of sense.

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So how did I get here?

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So I actually started in college studying psychology and let me rewind the tape a little bit.

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I have a father who is a race car driver and he had a 50-year career as a race car driver, and so I grew up watching someone pursue their passions, make money from their passions, and tell me, day in and day out, you can make money doing whatever you put your mind to follow your dreams, follow your heart.

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So this was sort of like the I don't know, just the messaging I got growing up and when I went into college I had two passions acting.

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So studying acting outside of school and I'm just obsessed with the human brain and how the mind works and what makes us tick and what compels us to take action.

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And so psychology is what I got my degree in and what I realized.

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Studying psychology is acting is all about human behavior and studying people and what makes them tick and what causes us to connect or to have a certain reaction or a certain response.

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Good acting is listening.

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Good acting is being present.

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Good acting is responding to what's in front of you instead of thinking about what's happening five steps down the road or coming in with a pre-planned way of doing something, which is essentially what coaching and business is.

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So I got my degree in psychology and I had a path to choose get my PhD or move to LA to pursue acting.

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And at that time acting is what lit me up the most and I had my dad's voice in my head.

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So I picked up, moved to LA and did that for 10 years, was in 12 indie films, 12 commercials, got to go to South Africa to do a film.

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It was amazing until it wasn't Something.

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We'll probably talk about this in different ways but I am a weirdo maybe not a weirdo, but I love to work.

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I love my work and I hit a day acting where I got material for an audition and I was annoyed that I had to do this really great opportunity.

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And that was the day I decided I did not want to become a jaded actress.

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I pretty much quit right then and there and without making this too long a story picked up, moved to New York City to start over, thought I wanted to work in advertising, got a job in advertising marketing and kind of fell into coaching through a conversation in a roundabout way and just fell in love with it.

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It was sort of all the dots connecting and started as a very general life coach, I think, as many of us do, doing mindset work.

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And one of my first clients came to me, was an entrepreneur and scaled to a million dollars during our time together.

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She was at about six figures at the time and I noticed I was just attracting a lot of business owners and helping them make money.

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And I realized, oh, I'm actually kind of good at this business thing and, looking back, acting is you're running a small business, you are marketing and branding yourself, you have to get an agent, you have to sell yourself in auditions.

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It is this much talent and this much marketing and sales.

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And so I just saw how all of that was really transferable and very long way of saying.

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Here we are.

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So I think in some ways it makes more sense than it sounds, but I think on the surface it makes no sense at all.

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Yeah, it's fascinating to hear that.

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I mean, I actually have a background in entertainment as well.

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I was in the music industry before I started as a business coach and when I was in middle school I was a singersongwriter and I was playing shows all around my neighborhood.

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I had this big presence on MySpace at the time and I was learning how to market through selling my own music and through sending cold DMs on MySpace, trying to figure out the right subject lines to put in the messages to get people to listen to my music, and it's fascinating how these non-traditional paths end up becoming so relevant in the work that we do.

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I'm curious, if you think back to that journey as an actress like, is there maybe one or two specific things that have really informed the work that you do, or that lessons that you take from that world that you've kind of integrated into the work that you do as a business coach?

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that world that you've kind of integrated into the work that you do as a business coach.

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Honestly, there's so many what you were speaking to here.

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One of the things that comes up for me is just the willingness to really own your work, advocate for yourself and I don't like the word hustle, maybe healthy hustle but to go out and essentially sell.

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I got my agent the same way you're talking about with those cold DMs by doing my research and reaching out to people and figuring out.

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I remember figuring out my email subject line and how to position myself as I was one of many.

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One of the things that really stands out to me in business now and that I support clients with quite a bit is how important it is for us to differentiate.

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It is loud and crowded out there and everybody's saying and doing the same thing when you're acting at the time I was a brunette.

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I was one of.

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There was a new thousand new brunettes my age showing up who technically had the skill set every single day how do you stand out?

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How do you differentiate without compromising your values or without being something that you're not?

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I think on a sales perspective, one of the things that I really take from the acting world is both the willingness to be rejected and not that you want to be rejected, but I think there's just something to being willing to put yourself out there in a big enough way where you're open to hearing a no.

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And what we were talking about earlier is so much of acting is being present and listening, and I think so much of business sales coaching is actually dropping in to listen to the person in front of you and what they're actually telling you, not what they're saying on the surface.

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So I could probably go on and on here, but there's quite a lot of parallel and takeaways from that world.

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Yeah, powerful.

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So you talked about this idea of differentiating, and this is a question I get quite a bit and something so many people are thinking about, especially with AI now and the amount of content and noise that is.

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I mean, when I first got started in 2016, really like my first official online coaching business it was so much easier.

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In many ways, I knew a lot less, but there wasn't as much happening or it felt like there wasn't as much happening.

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So many people are wondering how do I stand out, how do I differentiate myself?

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So what are some of the insights that you can share on that?

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What's been effective for your clients?

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How do you do that in today's world?

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I'm positive I don't want to just give you the canned answer One of the things I think, really, I think you talk about this as well.

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I think we are moving into such a time of personal branding and not your color and your logos, but I think people more than ever want to know that they are buying and working with people who have aligned values, and so I think we can differentiate simply by getting more clear on who we are, which, in some ways, is the biggest, hardest question ever what our values are as a business owner and really learning how to communicate.

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That.

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I call it strategic vulnerability, but I think there's a way in which how can we be vulnerable in a strategic way in which it is still serving a purpose of giving a lesson or aiding to our message, not coming in with all of our messy stuff, but showing more of who we are, our thought leadership and how we've come to create the results or to support our clients, and in many ways, it's just being ourselves.

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But I mean, this goes back to acting.

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In many ways, acting is not acting, it's how can you just drop in, listen and be the part, but sometimes that's the hardest acting work, I think, as a business owner.

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Sometimes it's so hard because that asks us to strip everything and show people who we are, and I think it's both the easiest and the hardest because we want to put on all the masks.

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Yeah, does that make sense Absolutely?

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I mean, I think you're spot on and the thing that gets in the way of that being all the layers.

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So when you're working with clients on that and there's a fear of showing up and sharing more of who they are, how do you work with people on that and what are some tools that people might take to be able to maybe move past some of the resistance that they might have in order to show the world more of who they really are?

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I think one of the first things, honestly, is creating awareness that we are hiding.

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I think so many of us don't realize how much I call it hiding in plain sight, but how much we really do hide behind our mask and how much we do sort of perform for the world.

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I think a lot of us have just been conditioned.

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I'm constantly finding new ways where I'm like oh, I didn't realize, like here's a way I'm still hiding.

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And then the work I'm doing with clients and, I think, for everyone.

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One of the things I like to think about is when we're hiding if we just even think about the word, we're doing that because we're trying to create safety.

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We don't think it's safe essentially, and so I'm always looking at how do we create safety?

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What is that fear?

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If you show up and share more, what are you actually worried about?

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And how can we create safety?

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Not how do we avoid it, Not how do we make sure it doesn't happen, but if that does happen, how can we see we can handle it, or it's not actually a big deal, or we'd be able to navigate it.

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I think that is your superpower as an entrepreneur, yeah totally.

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The safety piece is so important.

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I love this phrase.

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I forget where I heard this idea of like these barriers or these resistances being like false protections.

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They're pieces or parts us, they're trying to help, they're trying to keep us safe, and so so many, so many times there's the judgment that we like pile on top of it.

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I know for me it's like I noticed the thing and then I'm like, oh, why am I doing the thing?

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I have the layer of judgment on top of it, but it's like no, thank you, thank you that part of me that's trying to keep me safe, and maybe that's not super helpful and useful in this moment.

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We can kind of set that aside and create, you know, an internal sense of safety that allows us to move forward.

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But those are useful things in certain contexts and I love that framing around safety because it's so important.

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So so I want to I want to get a little bit more specific here Like can you maybe share like an example of this from your own business experience, maybe a pattern or a way that you've shown up in your marketing or messaging, something that you've become aware of like relatively recently, that you're maybe working on moving past or shifting in your own messaging or your own content.

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Yes, I'm pretty pretty open about this in my content, but one of without going too far down the rabbit hole, I have quite a lot of trauma around basically showing up and getting hate and getting bullied and just bad things happening and the bottom falling out.

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So I have quite a huge pattern.

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This is something I've worked through at every single level of business.

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I worked through this to make my first six figures.

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I'm working through this now to continue to scale multi-six figures and it's just really owning my success, owning that things are good, owning that you know the money I make, owning how well things are working.

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I call it look at me content and I think in some ways that can sound sort of like, really Like.

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Why is that hard?

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But for me, what I find and I find this for quite a few of my clients who either have trauma or have just people pleasing patterns I think it feels safer to be what I called strategically vulnerable in terms of sharing the hard things.

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Right, it's easier for me to talk about.

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Here are the ways I've struggled or here are the hard things I've gone through, because that's such a way we can get like or like.

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Then I don't have to hate you for your success.

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I think some of the hardest vulnerability is actually saying things are pretty good, like I'm doing really well, and so that is an edge.

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I'm continuing to work and it is.

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It is like prickly and like my voice is probably quivering, like it is prickly in every way, but I also know it's how I can best support clients.

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I also know, you know, that's the work for us as entrepreneurs, so it's it's also exciting.

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Now back to the episode.

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Yeah, I so resonate with that.

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Like I, I.

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So there was a.

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There was a thread a while back on online that I found, um, this is like when you get to you know you, you start having a really big presence and people start talking about you online, right, and there was this thread of people that I found, um, talking about.

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They were like what do you think of Jason Moss?

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And I found talking about.

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They were like what do you think of Jason Moss?

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And someone chimed in and they were like he's all about the money.

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He doesn't.

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He doesn't.

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All he wants to do is make more money.

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And there were a couple other people with like, yeah, yeah, yeah and I am still working through that, like the, the, the response that I had, because so much of messaging and content, especially as a business coach, is talking about the wins and you're sharing your own lifestyle and your own success.

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As a way, I see it as like it's.

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I mean, it's strategic from a marketing standpoint, but it's also like creating a possibility for other people to be able to show others like, hey, I've created this and you can create this too.

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This is a possibility for you.

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But experiencing that and processing that for me has still been.

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I noticed after that period of time that there was a part of me that really closed off from sharing a lot of the success and said, oh, I don't want to be perceived as this arrogant, money-obsessed business coach, so I'm just not going to talk about those things.

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And so in some ways, I think what you're sharing I can totally resonate with.

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Obviously, your story is unique and your own experience around it is unique, but I find it super common for a lot of the coaches, consultants, people that I work with I mean especially in the business space like we have so much resistance around talking about money and there's so many stories that we have around just sharing and not being boastful and not, you know, talking too much about ourselves that these are things that are super common, I think, for so many people that I mentor and work with, so I would imagine that we're probably not alone in that.

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I think it's so common and I think it's so human.

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I mean, as humans, we want to connect and fit in.

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I think the challenges as business owners and as thought leaders in many ways we're not meant to fit in right, we are showing a different path.

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But I personally think the thing that helps me if is helpful for people to hear, because I think almost every single one of my clients goes through this in some way, shape or form.

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I just remember two things what do I actually know to be true, because I've gotten my share of comments as well, and what I have found to be really interesting is, when I get comments, usually they don't ever sting as much as I thought they were going to, because I just inherently know what's true and I can come back to that.

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And the other thing I like to remember is what's important for us, I think, as business owners, money is the language of business.

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Being able to talk about money, share about money, money is a beautiful resource and tool.

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I want to be, especially as a not that this isn't true for you also, but as a female and as a woman and just being in a space where that is something that we haven't always had access to.

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I want to be a voice for that.

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So I don't know if that's helpful for people to hear, because I think it's so common, but sometimes if we can find what's more important for us on the other side of the fear, I think it can help us to show up, even when it feels super, super prickly, to share those things.

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Yeah, and so much of what you shared and I talk about this quite a bit with my clients the shift from self to other, because I find almost all resistance is rooted in a preoccupation with self.

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And so when I'm feeling like I don't want to talk about my own successes because I think it's all about me, but what I heard you just say was seeing my own story as a way of empowering other women allows me to kind of get out of my own way and that's such a powerful reframe to be able to kind of move the focus from this like preoccupation with self to how does this serve, which melts away a lot of the resistance I find for most people.

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Yeah, I have another client who does.

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I want to be mindful to be keeping her work confidential, but she does quite sensitive work and this is what we've talked about a lot.

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It's if she can get past it being about her and also just remember, as humans we just project all of the time, so any comments tend to be someone else's projections.

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But if she can think about it more in terms of how is this of service to help people in a really challenging kind of trauma-based topic, the more she can actually be of service and do the work she feels she's meant to do in this world, and I found that's really been powerful for her to not feel necessarily comfortable, but to feel comfortable in the discomfort of sharing more of her story.

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Yeah, I think that's a common, super common theme for all aspects of business, whether it's sales or marketing or content.

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It shows up in pretty much every sphere.

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So I wanna shift gears a little bit, because one of the things we were talking about before we started this was this idea of scaling smarter.

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Heading into the new year, I think a lot of people are thinking about this, myself included.

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You just did a big reflection on 2024.

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I've been checking out some of your reels and talking about some of Tell me more about this idea of scaling smarter and what are some of the specific insights or takeaways that maybe you realize from your own kind of reflection over 2024, things that you're changing moving into 2025 to be able to do this in your business.

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Yeah, thank you for asking, because I'm pretty obsessed about.

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I think we talked about working smarter, not harder, but I think it's scaling smarter, not harder, because I think so many of us get scaling confused and we end up in our at least in our online space the conversation we're just having about talking about money and sharing about money.

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I think we can get really caught up in just chasing that top line revenue and what I've just seen with a lot of clients who hire me how often that can have us in a place where we either don't like the work we're doing, we're working way too hard, we're over leveraged and or we're not paying ourselves in a way that is commensurate to that top line revenue.

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So for me, it really is how do you build a more simple business and really look at the data and really look at what is that 80-20 that is driving your revenue and really set your business up in a way that's profitable, where you're also making money in the way you want to and you're setting yourself up to take home more take home pay?

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I can pause, but I know you had a question about what did I notice?

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myself that contributed to that, but I don't want to just go down the rabbit hole.

00:20:10.113 --> 00:20:11.134
I love what you're talking about.

00:20:11.134 --> 00:20:24.205
I think, like I've also kind of been going through this, this series of insights around this was just a lot of what was behind the shift to one-to-one we definitely talk about that but tell me about your, your business and what this looks like for you today.

00:20:24.728 --> 00:20:26.413
Yeah, I mean so I don't.

00:20:26.413 --> 00:20:41.192
I don't know if we talked about this at the beginning, but I have an all one-on-one business model and I've very intentionally stuck with one-on-one and decide to scale that, even though I have been told by our industry year after year that you can't scale a one-on-one model and that you won't make enough money doing that.

00:20:41.192 --> 00:20:46.590
And it's been interesting because I think it's both something I have to kind of redo the mindset work around.

00:20:46.590 --> 00:20:55.396
But this year was really interesting because I never looked at this but it wasn't my first year that this happened.

00:20:55.396 --> 00:20:57.186
But I pay myself multi-six figures, so I make multi-six figures but I pay myself that.

00:20:57.186 --> 00:20:58.136
And it was one of the times where I was landing I was like, oh, isn't that interesting?

00:20:58.136 --> 00:21:05.229
Yeah, sure, I'm not making five times that top line, but I'm paying myself just as much as many other business models.

00:21:05.229 --> 00:21:13.861
And it just had me thinking about what are some of the reasons for that, aside from the fact that I love one-on-one, but it is so much the simplicity of the business.

00:21:14.020 --> 00:21:34.453
And this year in particular we also increased our profit margins and a lot of that was just really looking at how much shit were we doing that was working and was effective, but that we didn't need to do, or that we were overspending on, or that, if you have a one-on-one model in particular, there's only so many clients you can work with.

00:21:34.493 --> 00:21:41.550
So at a certain point, yes, it's great to build your audience and you want to future-proof your business and keep your pipeline full, but you only need to do that so much.

00:21:41.550 --> 00:22:03.243
And so just really looking at I don't know if this is an appropriate way to say it, but almost like trimming the fat and just really seeing what are those few moneymakers, those drivers, and leaning into those and basically doing less, better, and what I found this year is not only did that make us more profitable, but it is such a fucking edge for me.

00:22:03.243 --> 00:22:13.528
I don't know if you'll relate to this, but I like to work and I have the hard work gene, and it is so uncomfortable for me to sit on my hands and be like is that like we good?

00:22:13.528 --> 00:22:18.034
Like I don't need to like hustle, so, like, so I don't need to like create more content.

00:22:18.034 --> 00:22:26.021
It's a very it's a very strange place to be in, but that's also, I think, what working smarter, or scaling smarter, not harder, is all about.

00:22:26.923 --> 00:22:28.223
Yeah, there's so much of that.

00:22:28.223 --> 00:22:47.458
I can certainly relate to that, the sense that the amount of hours that I work, there's a part of my mind that says I need to be working hard in order to create results, and that has been a story that I've been working with and trying and really have made a lot of progress on dismantling, but it's still sticky in certain areas.

00:22:47.458 --> 00:22:53.666
So give me some specifics on like, what have you let go of in your business?

00:22:53.666 --> 00:22:55.151
You mentioned, like trimming the fat.

00:22:55.151 --> 00:22:59.851
What are some things that you're not doing heading into 2025 that you were doing in 2024?

00:23:01.053 --> 00:23:10.750
So one of the big things we let go of last year so in 2024, I still get used to saying 2024, 2025, I had a podcast that I loved, like, loved, loved, loved, loved recording it.

00:23:10.750 --> 00:23:13.613
We went to 195 episodes.

00:23:13.613 --> 00:23:20.381
It was absolutely filling our pipeline and generating clients, so, in all senses and purposes, like it was doing all the things it was meant to do.

00:23:20.381 --> 00:23:25.414
But I also have a thriving Facebook group where I go live every week and I was sent they.

00:23:25.414 --> 00:23:37.365
My lives and my podcast served the same function in my marketing strategy, and so one of the things we let go of last year was a podcast because it just cost us more to produce and you know you have a podcast.

00:23:37.365 --> 00:23:45.709
I think a podcast in some ways takes more effort to because you're on a separate platform than in a Facebook group.

00:23:45.709 --> 00:23:47.394
That's already kind of thriving and live.

00:23:47.394 --> 00:23:57.464
So we dropped that and the expenses around that, which also freed up my time so that I could put more energy into the lives in terms of being a little more intentional.

00:23:57.464 --> 00:24:07.828
Because one of the big things I noticed and this is what I'm taking into 2025, is when you're trying to do all the things and when you're working harder and you have that I got to work hard to make more money mentality.

00:24:07.828 --> 00:24:14.398
You start to phone things in and you spread yourself thin and you are not thinking through things as intentionally as you could.

00:24:14.419 --> 00:24:21.135
And I think for many of us who are good at what we do, we can coast and get a certain way on.

00:24:21.135 --> 00:24:36.640
I don't know kind of good enough and I don't want to make any sort of an argument for perfection or anything like that, but I just see such a difference in slowing down and just being a little bit more intentional and just thinking a little bit more.

00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:37.849
That's what thought leadership is.

00:24:37.849 --> 00:24:55.021
And so, going into 2025, I'm not necessarily dropping anything, but I'm really being mindful of not overbooking myself with one-on-one clients because I can do that sometimes and keeping my roster at a good place so that I'm cultivating the CEO white space, thinking time to actually think and to have space for my thought leadership.

00:24:55.021 --> 00:25:01.646
And that kind of goes back to our branding and messaging conversation, because I think that's really the lifeblood of my business.

00:25:03.192 --> 00:25:17.872
So something you just said that's super fascinating to me because I think about this a lot around, like what to let go go of and what I hear, which is super interesting, because a lot of people talk about letting go of things that aren't moving the needle and you know, okay, focus on the 80, 20 and all that.

00:25:18.231 --> 00:25:36.792
But I'm also hearing that like the podcast was working yeah, it was working great like talk to me about the thought process behind how you decided to let go of that, and I'm hearing that there was like a desire to want to double down on fewer things and do things really well, but also like that's hard to let go of.

00:25:36.904 --> 00:25:44.854
I think for a lot of business owners like yeah, like just to be completely transparent, like it was not easy, like it wasn't like, oh, I hate this or it's not working.

00:25:44.854 --> 00:25:52.667
It was like actually quite like a I don't know like kind of a heartbreak to let go of.

00:25:52.667 --> 00:25:57.817
I have a this is kind of a side tangent but I have a course idea that I'm obsessed with and it's not being done in the industry and I think it would be really great.

00:25:57.817 --> 00:26:04.505
And I started building it last year and I had to let it go for the same reasons and I grieved it, like I grieved the podcast as well.

00:26:04.505 --> 00:26:11.637
So just to be transparent on that, but the thought process around that is I time track, but once a quarter I time track where my time goes.

00:26:11.637 --> 00:26:24.167
I have my team do the same and I was just seeing how much time was going into my podcast and I was also just noticing things like we started showing up on Instagram to do live reels more and kind of.

00:26:24.208 --> 00:26:32.240
When I was sitting down to do a podcast where my energy was at, and instead of coming in with an intention or having something I really wanted to share, I was kind of doing this thing.

00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:36.050
I'm sure we've all done this where you're like just kind of winging it, Like what am I going to talk about?

00:26:36.050 --> 00:26:40.712
I'm just going to hit record and like I can wing shit to a certain degree, but that just only.

00:26:40.712 --> 00:26:42.096
It's not.

00:26:42.096 --> 00:26:42.944
That only gets you so far.

00:26:42.944 --> 00:26:45.848
I guess that's just not the work I want to be putting out there.

00:26:45.848 --> 00:26:48.010
I don't want to overthink things, but I do want to be intentional.

00:26:48.010 --> 00:26:56.260
And so I just noticed that I noticed how things were just getting kind of done in the cracks of time instead of feeling spacious.

00:26:56.825 --> 00:27:01.373
And I in 2021, I overbooked myself.

00:27:01.373 --> 00:27:12.730
I had 29 one-on-one clients and I will never not show up for my clients but what that meant and what I really saw and learned from that year I made great money, served my clients really well.

00:27:12.730 --> 00:27:20.474
I didn't necessarily burn out, but my marketing, my thought leadership, my creating something new really suffered.

00:27:20.474 --> 00:27:30.615
And I didn't see an impact of that right away, but about a year down the road I really just saw how that impacted just so much in our pipeline and just our business.

00:27:30.615 --> 00:27:39.851
And so I think all of that kind of then going into 2024, noticing wait, this starts to smell like that and I've just promised myself I won't let that happen again.

00:27:39.851 --> 00:27:44.529
I think that made it easier to make that decision or to pay attention to that.

00:27:44.529 --> 00:27:45.211
Does that make sense?

00:27:46.055 --> 00:27:46.435
It does.

00:27:46.435 --> 00:27:58.431
I mean, like the intention and the energy behind something being as important of an indicator of whether or not you should continue it as what the results are on on the outside is really powerful.

00:27:58.431 --> 00:28:00.251
Um, it's something I think about a lot too.

00:28:00.251 --> 00:28:01.880
Like what energetically?

00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:14.623
Like, how am I feeling when I'm showing up in this wing of my business and how can I create something that not only looks good on the outside but also allows me to show up feeling like I actually want to be here?

00:28:14.643 --> 00:28:17.372
Yeah, I mean that's kind of why I started.

00:28:17.372 --> 00:28:19.712
I'm sure you too, but I'm like that's why I started this business.

00:28:19.712 --> 00:28:20.494
That's my message.

00:28:20.494 --> 00:28:25.116
So if I'm not living my message, something's got to change.

00:28:25.116 --> 00:28:34.221
But also just from a cautionary tale, just from an actual business and numbers tale, it was affecting, like it was working, but it still costs money and time and energy.

00:28:34.221 --> 00:28:37.241
My time is money in terms of I can't.

00:28:37.241 --> 00:28:38.522
I have a one-on-one model.

00:28:38.522 --> 00:28:45.384
So if I'm using a bunch of time for one thing, I can't serve clients and make money during that time, or for paying more for that, that cuts into my profitability.

00:28:45.384 --> 00:28:52.614
And if, if I'm spread thin and not paying attention in a kind of future thinking with my marketing, that won't catch up now.

00:28:52.614 --> 00:28:57.881
But I do think for all of us that will catch up with a business six months a year, two years down the road.

00:28:57.881 --> 00:29:02.237
So I mean there's also there's a feel good and a financial element to it.

00:29:03.105 --> 00:29:11.817
Yeah, there's the leading and the lagging indicators, right, and the leading is often like how we feel and the intention, and then the lagging is the revenue and the clients and all the stuff that happens on the backend.

00:29:12.176 --> 00:29:52.547
So, on a selfish level, I am super curious to ask you about this because you know this, I recently completely shut down our group program and migrated our entire business to one-on-one, Partially because I've been really inspired by your model and from getting to experience you know we're new friends but getting to experience your business on a deeper level and the work that you do, partially just because I started to realize I think probably many of the lessons that you've shared, some of them in this podcast are things that I'm realizing in my own business and I'm curious if you can share a little bit more about like what your experience has been with that kind of model.

00:29:52.968 --> 00:30:05.896
Most people, I think will still have the belief of the only way to scale is to have a group program, is to do like what we did with accelerator, where we had this you know large group program where we brought a bunch of people through it.

00:30:05.896 --> 00:30:11.921
I'm imagining there's probably some myth busting to do there and if you can maybe speak to that.

00:30:11.921 --> 00:30:14.482
Like you, I mean, you're running a multi six figure business.

00:30:14.482 --> 00:30:17.554
You're, you know, making multiple six figures in profit, doing super well.

00:30:17.554 --> 00:30:19.472
You've been fully booked for years on end.

00:30:19.472 --> 00:30:30.115
Tell me a little bit more about that transition and that shift for you and what you've learned from having this model for the past few years in your business.

00:30:30.718 --> 00:30:33.042
Yeah, from having this model for the past few years in your business.

00:30:33.042 --> 00:30:38.356
Yeah, I'm going to preface by saying I think groups and masterminds and other models can be wonderful as well.

00:30:38.356 --> 00:30:42.431
So, just because I think this is the best and this is what you've transitioned to just for anyone listening, I want to be mindful.

00:30:42.431 --> 00:30:50.775
I have plenty of clients who have other models and are scaling in beautiful ways, but I'm also really excited for you because I'm clearly biased and think a one-on-one model is the best.

00:30:50.775 --> 00:31:01.483
So my thought process or I guess let me come back to your question here and your question is more just overall like how did I think about this?

00:31:01.766 --> 00:31:10.738
Yeah, what your experience has been like what you've learned from the past few years of running this and thinking about the person who might be listening to this and thinking, okay, I have this.

00:31:10.738 --> 00:31:13.769
Thinking about the person who might be listening to this and thinking, okay, I have this.

00:31:13.769 --> 00:31:21.054
I've been told this story that the way to scale my business is to move to group, because that's what most people do, Maybe creating some possibility for that person.

00:31:21.054 --> 00:31:23.164
Thank you, yeah, that's great, yeah.

00:31:23.204 --> 00:31:32.806
So what I would just like always think about is that scaling really just means that your revenue, your growth, is outpacing your energy and your expenses.

00:31:32.806 --> 00:31:35.731
So literally, scaling smarter, not harder.

00:31:35.731 --> 00:31:51.925
And so I think it's easy for us to think the only way we do that is with a traditional scalable model which is serving one too many, because in theory, you're using fewer hours to serve more people to make more money, and that is one model you can do that with.

00:31:51.925 --> 00:31:59.491
But if we actually just look at what scaling really is, it's essentially more take-home pay, it's more profit, not the top-line revenue number.

00:31:59.491 --> 00:32:19.192
So with the one-to-one model you might not make as much top-line revenue as someone who has a huge membership or who has a huge group program, but you will very likely take home the same, if not more, and I know this because I have peers and many clients who are making far more money on paper than me, but we make the same, or I take home more than them.

00:32:19.192 --> 00:32:25.266
And not to make anyone wrong, but just to like lay out the numbers there because a one-on-one model is generally high ticket.

00:32:25.266 --> 00:32:33.106
It is generally very, very low cost in terms of what it costs to maintain that model, it is very sustainable.

00:32:33.106 --> 00:32:35.373
I mean, I frankly think it's the easiest business model.

00:32:35.814 --> 00:32:37.827
People are like I can't believe you do this.

00:32:37.827 --> 00:32:38.853
I'm like I'm cheating.

00:32:38.853 --> 00:32:41.508
This is like literally the business like easiest business model.

00:32:41.508 --> 00:32:43.016
You don't need a huge audience, you don't.

00:32:43.016 --> 00:32:57.414
I do a lot of marketing more because I care about sharing my message and, I guess, keeping my business sustainable in the future, but you really don't have to do that much marketing If you have a good client base.

00:32:57.434 --> 00:33:00.028
My clients, many of them, have been with me for three, four or five years.

00:33:00.028 --> 00:33:04.250
I mean, at any given time I've maybe got a spot I'm selling, that's it.

00:33:04.250 --> 00:33:05.894
So most of the time I don't even have that much to sell.

00:33:05.894 --> 00:33:24.781
So just for anyone hearing this, in many ways it's easier in terms of I think it's a more sustainable model and I think it's something that, frankly, as we're moving into a season in our industry where it's more saturated and ad costs are, we just started running ads.

00:33:24.781 --> 00:33:27.511
Our ads are actually pretty low, but I've heard that costs are going up.

00:33:27.511 --> 00:33:45.540
I think a lot and just with AI and what that's doing for kind of more how to content, I think it's actually something people are always going to pay for and crave, where things like memberships and courses are, I think, just harder to actually create a profitable profitability around.

00:33:45.540 --> 00:33:49.018
I'm going to pause because I could just go on and on about this and I want to make sure I'm not talking too much.

00:33:49.047 --> 00:33:52.761
You're preaching pause because I could just go on and on about this and I want to make sure I'm not just talking too much.

00:33:52.761 --> 00:33:53.323
You're preaching, I mean.

00:33:53.323 --> 00:34:03.769
So we've been talking so much about this on, you know, my podcast just what's changing and some of the shifts that you highlighted the shift to AI and how I mean my belief is moving in the future.

00:34:03.769 --> 00:34:32.989
Intimacy is becoming something that we desire so much more because we live in a world where it's more and more a rarity, and when I was in my first coaching business I built the six figures was online courses primarily, and people not that they don't buy courses today, but like if you don't have a community component or some kind of like intimacy component on the back end, they're much harder to sell than they used to be 10 years ago when I was doing this.

00:34:32.989 --> 00:34:36.018
So I love so much of what you shared.

00:34:36.018 --> 00:34:58.454
And the other piece around the lifetime value is something that, honestly, this has been a big shift for us because when I looked at and I was always working with one-to-one clients, but we had this big group program, we took over 140 people through it and when I looked at the actual lifetime value of the clients that I was working with one-to-one versus people that I would take through the group program.

00:34:58.454 --> 00:35:08.873
It was three to four times more because people would stick around, because when they're more connected to you they're generally gonna have better experiences.

00:35:09.405 --> 00:35:11.471
People want intimacy on a deeper level.

00:35:11.471 --> 00:35:15.824
It's a more desirable offer versus if you're running a large group program.

00:35:15.824 --> 00:35:26.503
Oftentimes it places a lot more dependency on filling the pipeline with new leads all the time and, to your point, on ad spend rising and the cost of paid traffic becoming more expensive.

00:35:26.503 --> 00:35:48.221
I think a lot of people are reckoning with that model of let's just put more people in the front because that might work for a while, but it becomes a very difficult game to play over a long period of time if you're not creating back end, recurring, some kind of model where people are actually sticking around for much longer.

00:35:48.221 --> 00:35:57.637
And that's been just my experience from this, which is part of what inspired me, in addition to seeing you know your business and what you're doing to to really shift our our model to one-to-one.

00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:02.893
Yeah, I really agree and again, I have plenty of clients of, I think, a group program or a mastermind.

00:36:02.893 --> 00:36:03.695
You still get that one.

00:36:03.695 --> 00:36:10.235
I mean, in many ways that is one-on-one at scale for for people who who want that and I think that can meet the same need.

00:36:10.235 --> 00:36:12.746
And there are courses that can still do well.

00:36:12.746 --> 00:36:15.126
So I don't want people who have courses to think that it can't Sure.

00:36:15.146 --> 00:36:16.853
We're not saying burn down your business.

00:36:18.510 --> 00:36:20.315
Yeah, but with a course model.

00:36:20.315 --> 00:36:54.550
I mean, you are just playing the ads game at a certain degree if you want to scale in 2025, just to put it simply and I think we were talking about differentiation, I think when you can create a one-on-one relationship, but also when you can support someone one-on-one you and I are, I imagine, coaches, because we love to coach and we want to actually impact people and help them create shifts and transformation and get results Some sort of one-on-one component, whether it's one-on-one or one to a few in a group, tends to be the best way people are going to have that transformation, not just consuming information.

00:36:54.550 --> 00:37:02.728
Otherwise, all of us downloading everything in chat, gbt and all of the courses and all of the PDFs would be gazillionaires with six-pack abs, and that's just not the case.

00:37:02.728 --> 00:37:12.860
So you know, I think there's the differentiation, the profitability, but I think there's also the work itself and how that can actually support people getting an ROI from their investment.

00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:29.706
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Now back to the episode.

00:37:55.269 --> 00:38:00.757
I mean so much of like the belief that I feel like this is dismantled for me.

00:38:00.757 --> 00:38:09.780
I've always had this tension between the desire for intimacy and the desire for scale and feeling like these two things kind of are two separate things.

00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:12.965
And feeling like these two things kind of are two separate things.

00:38:12.965 --> 00:38:18.894
Like I can only grow my business if I take away the thing that is actually the most meaningful thing for me, which has always been like the smaller, more intimate experiences.

00:38:18.894 --> 00:38:39.173
Like we ran this retreat in Boulder in June I think it was this past year I was like 12 entrepreneurs One of my first in-person events actually the first in-person event I'd ever done and it was like the best thing I've ever done, like I absolutely loved it and I've always had this sense like I want to work with people in a very deep, intimate way.

00:38:39.193 --> 00:38:57.909
But I think, being in the business space for a while, it's very easy to fall into that mindset of the only way for me to grow my business is to take that away and then you end up in a like I did, in a model where it was like, okay, this looks good on paper, but there's something missing.

00:38:57.909 --> 00:39:00.657
For me, this doesn't feel like it's feeding that part of me that really desires to connect on a deeper level.

00:39:00.657 --> 00:39:05.436
So I love that you're creating this possibility for me and for other people through listening to this.

00:39:06.324 --> 00:39:14.416
I appreciate you being like just sharing this as well and sharing your part of the journey, because I think, if it's helpful for everyone to hear, I'm also in our online space.

00:39:14.416 --> 00:39:16.480
I also have a human monkey mind.

00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:30.628
Every year I hit a point I could go through my notes to my coach where I have to have one conversation where I just need to reset because you know you're with peers and a mastermind who are on paper right, have bigger businesses, and I support clients to do that.

00:39:30.628 --> 00:39:32.152
I know how the sausage is made, so to say.

00:39:32.152 --> 00:39:38.974
I know what I need to do if I want to create that, and it can be tough sometimes to keep your eyes on your own paper and to come back to that.

00:39:38.974 --> 00:39:42.054
So I appreciate you sharing that side of it as well.

00:39:42.847 --> 00:39:52.396
If this is helpful for people listening in terms of scaling one-on-one I don't know for sure, but I don't know for sure, but I think the way you're doing it is just charging a premium, which I think just remembering for scaling.

00:39:52.396 --> 00:39:54.619
Sometimes the easiest way to scale is just to raise your rates.

00:39:54.619 --> 00:39:57.210
I mean it sounds overly simple, but I think we think it has to be.

00:39:57.210 --> 00:40:00.157
I don't know, have this huge new program.

00:40:00.157 --> 00:40:08.251
You could just raise your rates, and I use a revenue sharing model, so that's the way we scale one-on-one, which is a profit sharing model, which I'm happy to share about.

00:40:08.251 --> 00:40:14.440
But I think that's just also I didn't know that existed before my coach had it and that sort of opened up possibility for my brain as well.

00:40:15.445 --> 00:40:21.327
I'm super curious about that Tell me more about, because that wasn't something you had forever.

00:40:21.327 --> 00:40:23.632
This was something you've integrated more recently.

00:40:23.632 --> 00:40:33.498
Tell me more about what you've learned through that shifting the way that you price to RevShare in addition to like flat rate.

00:40:33.985 --> 00:40:46.768
Yeah, and so just for context, for anyone listening, I essentially charge a base rate that covers my time and my team's time, and then 10% of new revenue clients make while working with me that they pay just over that time.

00:40:46.768 --> 00:40:48.793
So that is basically based on results.

00:40:48.793 --> 00:40:51.028
It's a way that I can have skin in the game and we can partner together.

00:40:51.028 --> 00:40:52.833
For me it makes a lot of sense.

00:40:52.833 --> 00:40:54.157
It's how I've always paid my coach.

00:40:54.157 --> 00:40:55.068
But I'm an actress.

00:40:55.068 --> 00:40:56.010
That's how I paid my agent.

00:40:56.010 --> 00:40:57.014
I work in advertising.

00:40:57.014 --> 00:40:58.144
That's how we got paid as an agent.

00:40:58.144 --> 00:41:00.327
So it just makes a lot of sense to me.

00:41:02.268 --> 00:41:31.101
What I would say I think what's interesting is definitely not a model for everyone, because I think there's a strategy to it in terms of choosing clients, or being in a position where you can choose clients where this model really makes sense and who really want to show up to play the long game with you and work long term Because obviously clients who work with you for four years are going to be in a different place than client results after three months and who want that long term partnership and who really want to scale.

00:41:33.804 --> 00:42:00.980
But I think outside of that, there's only so much you can control, and so most of us entrepreneurs are control freaks and if you're someone who's like I just want to scale and make more money this is a bit of a long game and it is something that, yeah, it really is up to your clients and what they do, and I think it requires quite a bit of just internal work around showing up to support clients and detaching from their results and detaching from trying to guide them towards what will make them more money or how can, how is this going to affect me?

00:42:00.980 --> 00:42:03.427
And really detaching from that completely.

00:42:03.427 --> 00:42:05.032
So it has its pros and its cons.

00:42:05.032 --> 00:42:08.688
I personally love it, but I think a lot of people might not.

00:42:09.552 --> 00:42:34.378
I would imagine that's got to be a difficult piece of it, and both that you're aligned, which is great, and that you're incentivized to really help someone grow, but also that so many of the things that create growth I know for me is like it's the long-term stuff, so it's very easy to be like, oh, I can help you make more money next month, but are those always going to be the things that are going to help someone build a sustainable, profitable business Six months, 12 months, five years down the line?

00:42:34.378 --> 00:42:34.998
Usually not.

00:42:34.998 --> 00:42:35.480
So is that?

00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.692
I mean, you kind of hinted at this a little bit, but has that been?

00:42:38.692 --> 00:42:41.137
How have you navigated that?

00:42:41.985 --> 00:42:44.893
Yeah, I would say I don't know if this is the question you're asking.

00:42:44.934 --> 00:42:49.414
But I would say for me, honestly, I literally don't think about revenue share until the monthly stuff comes in.

00:42:49.414 --> 00:42:57.952
One of the reasons I love is that it allows me to meet and work with clients who are scaling to a million and clients who are brand new to business, and I love working with clients at both stages.

00:42:57.952 --> 00:43:03.835
It's kind of like a sliding scale in that way, and so I never, with a new client I'm thinking like how do we hurry up and make you money?

00:43:03.835 --> 00:43:14.306
Or if one of my clients is scaling, like you're going through a pivot right, through a pivot right, and brings this to me and I'm like, oh, but that means we might have a temporary shift back before they make more and that's going to affect my revenue.

00:43:14.306 --> 00:43:19.737
I'm literally not ever like it sounds cheesy, but I just I'm always thinking about what's right for my client.

00:43:21.786 --> 00:43:27.407
But I think, if this is helpful to hear, this is just the way my brain works with this and probably why this model works for me.

00:43:27.407 --> 00:43:36.251
I'm so available to make more money, I want to make more money, I would love to make more money, but I make enough money in my business that, honestly, if I make more money.

00:43:36.251 --> 00:43:38.753
It's not going to change my life, like I'm barely going to notice.

00:43:38.753 --> 00:43:42.148
I'm just going to invest more, which is cool, but it's so.

00:43:42.148 --> 00:43:45.297
I just don't have that like like.

00:43:45.297 --> 00:43:48.527
I have that want without feeling like that that pressure, that need.

00:43:48.795 --> 00:43:50.342
Yeah, the intention, without the attachment.

00:43:50.655 --> 00:43:53.230
Yeah, and so that might just be even something to think about.

00:43:53.230 --> 00:44:06.840
If you're someone who's thinking about a revenue share model, can you detach in that way and can you set your base rate up in a way where it covers your needs so that you don't feel like you want more but you're not feeling really attached to more, I think?

00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:09.086
I think that base rate is really important for that.

00:44:09.855 --> 00:44:11.099
Did that answer what you were asking?

00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:13.545
It does, yeah, and I love that.

00:44:13.545 --> 00:44:26.978
Just that framing around the desire without the attachment which is talk about this a lot with money mindset, like it's such an important key and it's hard, it's hard to do, it's hard to detach and I think a lot of people struggle with that.

00:44:27.039 --> 00:45:09.463
It's easier, I find, when you're making a lot of money no-transcript stuff that has nothing to do with money and more to do with just personal trauma, shit and like nothing to do with money at all and like when I can separate that out, I can see, yeah, that it's a lot easier to attach.

00:45:10.465 --> 00:45:11.427
It's not an easy thing to do.

00:45:11.427 --> 00:45:14.090
I mean, I've kind of gone through a version of this this past year.

00:45:14.090 --> 00:45:37.288
I've been working with a mentor for the past two years and you know eight figure business owner and hanging out in masterminds with people who are making you know 10 million plus a year and I think I got super fixated in a way that I don't think was super healthy in my business and you know, I mean I was kind of at this like half a million dollar a year mark for a while.

00:45:37.288 --> 00:45:43.347
But this, the past probably six months, I was and I've been like we're gonna hit seven figures.

00:45:43.347 --> 00:46:02.594
We're gonna hit seven figures If you look at a lot of my content from like six months ago, like talk about this quite a bit, but at a certain point I realized like I really just needed to let go of that completely and very much in the space of like if it happens, great, like if it doesn't great, I'm happy.

00:46:02.634 --> 00:46:04.398
Right now I don't need more money.

00:46:04.398 --> 00:46:12.454
What I really want is to serve and help people and have a good time and the money has a great way of taking care of itself.

00:46:12.454 --> 00:46:17.847
Like in that mindset I find the more I've attached I am to the goal of the thing, the more I get off course.

00:46:19.795 --> 00:46:22.822
It's, I imagine, for someone listening.

00:46:22.822 --> 00:46:34.326
I will let me say this another way I imagine if I had heard us talking about this six years ago, I would have rolled my eyes or been like yeah, easy for you to say, like no, you need to like, really be fixated on it.

00:46:34.326 --> 00:46:37.324
But I have just so, so, so, so so.

00:46:37.324 --> 00:46:38.286
Seen that to be true.

00:46:38.286 --> 00:46:47.864
I was sharing my word of the year is fun, and I have found my resistance to fun is so often because I think I have to be serious and I have to be really focused on my goal and that's the only way to get it.

00:46:47.864 --> 00:46:57.164
But the truth is, whenever I release the goal because when we're fixating on a goal, that's actually scarcity, that's actually lack, that's actually saying I need this, it needs to fill a hole I don't have it.

00:46:57.164 --> 00:47:00.561
When we're having fun, right, we're in a place that I have enough, everything is good.

00:47:09.514 --> 00:47:11.322
I'm doing, what to me than how the money takes care of itself and just what shows up for us.

00:47:11.322 --> 00:47:13.373
Yeah, and I love that frame around the fixation on the goal being rooted in lack.

00:47:13.373 --> 00:47:15.358
We're talking about manifestation and all that.

00:47:15.358 --> 00:47:18.985
The letting go of that is trust.

00:47:18.985 --> 00:47:23.021
It's I have all my needs, I have everything, so I can let go of that.

00:47:23.021 --> 00:47:35.106
And, paradoxically, that is when we are able to attract so much more because we're not chasing something from a feeling of deficiency and that's getting mirrored back to us in our experience.

00:47:35.106 --> 00:47:38.364
So tell me more about fun, because 2025, I love that.

00:47:38.364 --> 00:47:42.106
What inspired you to want to choose that as your word?

00:47:42.106 --> 00:47:45.865
And, yeah, what does that mean for you heading into the new year?

00:47:47.476 --> 00:47:48.818